Daniel A. Kelley :Author of ‘Behind the Veil”: The Complete Guide to Conscious Sleep; and numerous other books in

Q&A with Author/Teacher Ivan Kos (Excerpt from the November issue of the Veiler’s Newsletter)

Author of the ground-breaking books, ‘Skygates of the Mind’ and ‘33 Pillars of Life’, Ivan Kos is truly one of the most intriguing thinkers that I’ve had the honor of interviewing. Sign up for the Veiler’s Newsletter and access powerful methods for Lucid Dreaming, Meditation, OBE, and Q&A interviews with thought provoking thinkers like Ivan Kos! The December Issue features a Q&A with well-known author and researcher, David Jay Brown (Dreaming Wide Awake). What’s waiting for you behind the Veil?

  1. Your first experience with OBE was in 1973, correct? What was it like and how did you first interpret the experience?
  2. Yes, you are right. In my dream I was walking down the well-lit street. It was early in the evening. Street lights were on already. A cat with 3 legs (missing a right front leg) was running across the street, but she was running perfectly, as if she had all four legs. The thought struck me; this is not possible, I must be dreaming. Great feeling of liberation swept over me. Than a great excitement with its possibilities which made me wake up. The whole experience lasted only few seconds but it had a huge impact on my future spiritual life.
    I embarked on an intensive search to find out what this was. It took me a year to find out two obscure references to Conscious Dreaming, one in ‘Tibetan Book of Bon’ and the other in ‘Egyptian Book of Dead’. Now days you guys have hundreds of websites, dozens of books (including mine), blogs, videos and workshops.
  3. In your book, ‘Transcendental Rebirthing’, you highlight the potency of specific breathing exercises. What are your thoughts on Holotropic Breathwork, pioneered by Stan Grof MD?
  4. Stanislav Grof was an early pioneer of Rebirthing. He used LSD in his experiments. He quickly realised this could cause big problems and could never be accepted by general public. So, he switched to Pranayama breath and called it Holotropic. 
    About the same time Arthur Janov came up with his ‘Primal Therapy’ and wrote ‘Primal Scream’. At that time patients would often curl up in a fetal position or bang their heads against the wall screaming ‘mommy, mommy’.
    During the hippie era in California many would sit in warm cedar tubs and smoke their joints. Some noticed they would all of the sudden re-experience their births. Leonard Orr took advantage of it an named it ‘Rebirthing’. Soon after he switch to breath technique; rebirthees laying on the ground. Since then this method experienced gradual improvements and branching. One of them being ‘Transcendental Rebirthing’ modified by me, to the point where it became a complete system



  1. In your book, ‘Skygates of the Mind’, you offer an array of methods for OBE. You claim that these abilities are endogenous psychedelics produced within the body and stimulated by the Will. Would you say that these practices are as dangerous and addictive as exogenous opiates and other drugs?
  2. Internal drugs do not create danger for the physical body. They are perfect, and fit perfectly the key-holes on our cell membranes, unlike external drugs, which have slightly twisted molecular structure and on entering damage the key-holes. This is what gives you that stoned feeling.
    Now, is internal DMT, endorphin, LSD, THC, etc. addictive; yes definitely. Internal drugs are 100 -1000 times more powerful than external and it stands to logic they would be. Just look at the behavior of most people. But internal drugs are absolute necessity. Let’s take a look at about 200 endocannabinoids, which are involved in almost 90% of all bodily processes. Without them you could not live longer than a minute or two. But what about super-potent inner DMT and LSD? Well, how do you think we are producing images of this waking world and a dream world?! 
    Our inner chemistry is pure magic. Our mind-body system produces over quadrillion chemical reactions every second.
    Nothing can happen in our body without corresponding chemistry, including Out-of-Body, Astral Projection, Lucid Dreaming, Spirit Traveling, Yogic Dreaming, Mind Travelling, Conscious Dreaming, and whatever other name it might come under. In fact, ‘activating’ so called Third Eye is synonymous with producing extra DMT and other hallucinogens. Here we should keep in mind our subconscious mind dreams in tri-dimensional live images 24 h a day. We can become conscious, and influence this world, every time we go to sleep. Here it is of utmost importance to train the Intent, the ability of Willing which is above thoughts and emotions. For what reason? Could we possible learn to function without chemistry in a Dream World, and a world beyond, the Spirit World?
  3. Your “Pillars” book, by far the most mysterious of your works, clearly attempts to make sense out of otherwise inscrutable metaphysical concepts. How would you sum up the basic purpose of that book?
  4. Creator creates every millisecond; this is “his” job. Future keeps coming at us and Existence is teaching us a lesson every day, so we should never stop learning. ‘33 Pillars of Life’ is an attempt to make sense of unfathomable; to somehow point to what is behind the veil. If properly understood, at least to some degree, it could enable the aspirant to recognize these states, if and when they happen. When infinity and eternity comes at us we should be able to take it, without loosing our marbles.
  5. What role, if any, does sexuality have in your system? It’s well known that wasting sexual energy negative effects Lucid Dreaming and psychic prowess in general. What are your thoughts on this controversial issue?
  6. Sexual organ is procreative organ and therefore very powerful. It is also our lowest organ and therefore its energy is very coarse. For men, a sexual orgasm is a huge loss of energy and most precious fluid. The reason is sexual orgasm in men is hooked to ejaculation. It doesn’t have to be! At least basic White Tantra should be studied and practiced by all men. I would even venture to say that present day epidemic of prostate problems, for the most part, is a result of that abuse. (Orgasm gains energy for women.) Abuse of the sexual energy is the biggest problem our world is facing. It stands to reason spiritual aspirant should take a very close look at his/ her sexual behaviour.
  7. What are your thoughts on binaural beats technology? Also, so-called dream herbs and Subliminals? Are they useful? Should aspirants avoid them?
  8. Binaural beats might be helpful for a small number of people, but are distractive for others. Some dream herbs, like Ayahuasca (DMT) are very powerful. To do it without proper preparation, and then at the most three times, is not very wise; in fact, it is stupid. We would not drive in car 42,195 metres and than claim we run a marathon, would we now.
    Subliminals are not very effective. We are throwing them into SUB-conscious, which is already over a million times greater than a conscious mind.
  9. Ivan, thanks again for taking the time to contributing to The Veiler’s Haven and for your continued efforts to make this wisdom available to a larger audience.
  10. It’s my pleasure. It’s refreshing to see the tireless work you’re doing here, not only in your own publications and workshops, but also in the Newsletter and interviews. Keep up the good work!